Transcript Translit עברית
This transcript is auto-generated and may contain errors.
0:02 Today's daf is חולין דף סמך טת. 0:04 We begin by thanking all our sponsors. 0:06 We thank Yona and Netty Schloss for sponsoring all the shiurim of the month as a zechut for a refuah sheleimah for Eliezer ben Elisheva. 0:13 We also thank Bat Sheva Pava for sponsoring all the shiurim of the month in honor of the third yahrtzeit of Rav Shlomo Vaysh, שלמה יהודה שלמה בן יהודה אריה, of Philadelphia. 0:23 His yahrtzeit was of Zayin Tammuz. 0:25 He was a chavrusah of Rav Ashurwitz who learned Gemara every morning at 5:00 AM. 0:29 He was a zocheh hakontres hatiferes אור שבע תורה מצוות ירצה השם נשמה שתהיה עליה. 0:32 We also thank Yosef Mordechai Cohen for sponsoring all the shiurim of the month of Tammuz in memory of רב דוקטור נחום שור, נחום בן חיים יהושע הלוי, who loved Camp Yedidim and suburban orthodox. 0:44 We also thank the Miller and Rosen families for sponsoring all the shiurim of the week l'ilui nishmas Dr. 0:52 Joseph Miller, חיים יוסף בן ראובן זכרונו לברכה. We also thank Eyal Sarstein for sponsoring daf yomi in the zechut of continued health for שלמות חנה בת סשה and for an ultimate refuah sheleimah. 1:04 ירצה השם נשמה שתהיה עליה l'cholim should have a refuah sheleimah. 1:08 Today's daf is daf Samech Tes. 1:09 We are going to pick up on דף סמך חת עמוד בית at Meisvei. 1:20 If it's okay, just for the flow of the shiur, we're going to go back to עולא אמר רבי יוחנן just because Meisvei is asking a question on עולא אמר רבי יוחנן. 1:27 So let's go back just a couple lines. 1:29 It's approximately halfway down the amud. 1:33 We got this. We will do this entire amud for today and today's daf as well. 1:39 עולא אמר רבי יוחנן. Ulla says in the name of Rabbi Yochanan the eivar atzmo mutar. 1:41 So what's this talking about? 1:43 Yesterday Rav mentioned we have this discussion of behemah mekashah leileid, an animal that's having a difficulty in childbirth. 1:49 And what happens is one of the eivarim come out and then go back in. 1:53 So the halacha is we know clearly that the ubar, the fetus inside, still remains mutar. 1:58 And again, this is the halacha of ben pekuah, which essentially means if an animal is, the fetus in the animal's stomach at the time of shechitah, the shechitah works for everything that's inside the animal, including the ubar. 2:10 And therefore if that ubar is born, whether it's alive or it's not alive, it's permissible and can be eaten without shechitah. 2:18 Now the discussion over here is if the animal, this ubar, this fetus, stuck a paw, stuck one of its legs out, one of the legs, one of the paws out, and then it goes back in. 2:31 So the halacha is whether that paw that goes out, does that remain under the heter of the shechitah and therefore can be eaten? 2:42 Or is that leg disqualified, the leg or paw is disqualified because of the pesul of yotzei because it went out of the animal? 2:49 So yesterday we had the shita of Rav who said eivar atzmo assur. 2:54 The eivar that actually came out is disqualified from this ben pekuah status. 2:58 And even though the rest of the animal may be eaten without shechitah, this leg cannot be eaten without shechitah and essentially you're going to have to just get rid of this. 3:06 And then עולא אמר רבי יוחנן, Ulla says in the name of Rabbi Yochanan the halacha is different. 3:09 He says eivar atzmo mutar. The eivar itself, this paw or this leg that came out, is going to be permissible and may be eaten without shechitah. Rav Yehuda L'Ulla, Rav Yehuda responded to Ulla and said, but Rav v'Shmuel both Rav v'Shmuel say eivar atzmo assur, that actual limb is going to 3:26 be prohibited. Amar lei, so he responded to him, מן יהב לן מעפרא דרב ושמואל ומלינן עינין. 3:31 In other words, this was an expression of his admiration for Rav and Shmuel. Amar Ella, so he said אלא הכי אמר רבי יוחנן. 3:40 Rather in other words, even though he has tremendous admiration for Rav and Shmuel, nevertheless he says this is what Rabbi Yochanan taught us: הכל היו בכלל בשר בשדה טריפה לא תאכלו. 3:49 When the pasuk says בשר בשדה טריפה לא תאכלו, everything was included. 3:54 Now when the pasuk went out of its way and said כשפרשה הכתוב גבי חטאת שיצאה חוץ למחיצתה when the pasuk went ahead and specified this halacha with regard a chatas that went out of its mechitzah, vachazarah, and then went back in and said assurah, so the pasuk 4:13 goes on and says חטאת הוא דפרט רחמנא בה אבל כל מילי כיון דהדר שרי. 4:20 In other words, he understands that when it comes to chatas, the pasuk specifically talks to you about a case where it went out of bounds and then came back in to tell you that even though it came back in bounds, 4:40 it still remains an out-of-bounds disqualified forever. 4:48 However, that implies that's not the case with other scenarios. 4:53 So for example, our case where the leg... 4:55 goes out of bounds or the paw goes out of bounds, if it goes back in bounds, it's considered to be kosher. 5:01 ברוך אתה ה' אלהינו מלך העולם שהכל נהיה בדברו. So that was yesterday's Gemara. 5:08 Now we begin with a meisive. 5:10 A meisive asking a question on עולא אמר רבי יוחנן, on Ulla who says this halacha in the name of Rabbi Yochanan, asking how could it possibly be that you are of the opinion that that leg or that limb is going to be permissible. 5:25 Meisve. בשר בשדה טרפה לא תאכלו. The pasuk tells you if you have meat in the sadeh, essentially out of bounds, it's treifa, it's treifa lo socheilu. Ma talmud lomar? 5:38 Why does it have to say treifa? 5:41 In other words, what's wrong with just writing the word lo socheilu? 5:44 Why does it have to write the word treifa? 5:47 Says the Gemara, לפי שמצינו במעשר שני וביכורים. 5:49 If you look at מעשר שני וביכורים, both things that need to be eaten in Yerushalayim, שאף על פי שיצא חוץ למחיצתן, even if they go out of Yerushalayim, vechasru and they go back into Yerushalayim, mutarin, they're allowed to be eaten. 6:04 So yachol, I would think af sekayin, the halacha is the same in this case as well. 6:09 Talmud lomar treifa. Pasuk tells you treifa. 6:13 In other words, what do you see very clearly from here? 6:16 When it uses the word treifa in the pasuk, there is an indication that this animal is treif, it's different than מעשר שני וביכורים. 6:25 Now the Gemara is going to explain how this works. 6:27 Mai talmuda? What exactly did you learn from the fact that it says treifa? 6:32 How does that help you? 6:33 Amar Rabba, Rabba tells you ketreifa. 6:36 It's similar to an animal which is a treifa. Ma treifa, just like an animal which is a treifa like all those treifas that we learned about in the previous perek, kivan shenitrefa, once an animal becomes a treifa, שוב אין לו היתר. 6:49 There's nothing else to do about it. 6:51 In other words, you can't if you have an animal that has one of these mortal injuries and it's considered it's in the category of a treifa, there's no walking that back, there's no way to fix it. 6:59 The halacha is it remains a treifa, it can't be fixed. 7:02 Af basar, same thing is true with regard to basar that goes out of bounds, כיון שיצא חוץ למחיצתו, once it goes out of the boundaries of where it's supposed to be, שוב אין לו היתר no longer has a heter, so tiyuvta de'Ulla tiyuvta. 7:17 This is ultimately a refutation on Ulla's opinion. 7:21 So what happens here just quickly? 7:25 Ulla says in the name of Rabbi Yochanan, he quotes Rabbi Yochanan as saying that if you have an eiver, a limb of the animal, let's be more precise. 7:33 You have a limb of a fetus that comes out of the mother and then goes back in, Rav told us that limb is permanently disqualified from the ben pekua status and the shechita that happens on the mother will not be effective 7:48 on that limb. Rabbi Yochanan disagrees and he says the limb that goes out as long as it's out of bounds, as long as it's out of the mother, so if the fetus sticks out a limb, as long as it's out of 8:03 bounds, the shechita is not going to work. 8:05 Once it comes back in, the shechita will work for the entire animal. 8:09 Now ultimately the Gemara asks a question on Ulla in the name of Rabbi Yochanan and said when the pasuk describes this particular issur, it uses the word treifa. 8:18 The reason why it uses the word treifa must be, says the Gemara, because it wants to indicate to you that it has a halachic status as a treifa. 8:26 If it did not want to teach us that halacha, it could have just said ובשר בשדה לא תאכלו. 8:32 Don't eat it as long as it's out in the field, don't eat it. 8:35 Why use the word treifa? 8:37 Why do you have to tell me that meat that is out of its boundaries is going to be a treifa? 8:43 Says the Gemara the reason for that is to indicate that it is not just forbidden when it's out of bounds, it's actually a treifa, it gets stamped permanently with the status of treifa once it goes out. 8:56 It gets a rubber stamp of treifa on it even if it goes back in it still maintains that identity as a treifa and the shechita on the mother is not going to be successful to allow it to be eaten. 9:07 Ultimately says the Gemara tiyuvta de'Ulla tiyuvta, this is a refutation on Ulla's opinion. 9:12 Amar mar. Gemara goes on, לפי שמצינו במעשר שני וביכורים. 9:19 Let's just analyze what we talked about before. 9:21 What do you mean? 9:21 Where is this? Where do we find this idea when it comes to maaser sheini and to bikurim that if it goes out and comes back in it's going to be permissible? 9:30 לפי שמצינו במעשר שני וביכורים says the Gemara heichan matzinu? 9:35 Where do we find this? 9:36 Where indeed is this found that maaser sheini and bikurim, both things where the halacha is it needs to be brought up to Yerushalayim and eaten in Yerushalayim? 9:45 Says the Gemara deksiv for it says in the pasuk You can't just eat maaser sheini in your own quarters. 9:52 Maaser deganecha tiroshcha. tiroshecha ve-yitzharecha, the pasuk continues, that's how the pasuk continues. 9:59 Says the Gemara, The pasuk specifically wanted you to know that the problem over here is eating it in your own quarters. 10:08 אבל יצאו חוץ למחיצתן, but if the Ma'aser Sheni or the Bikkurim exits the place where it's supposed to be eaten, in other words, it exits Yerushalayim, ve-chazru, then goes back in, mutar, it is permissible. 10:24 In other words, there are some cases when there is an actual disqualification by virtue of the fact that it left the boundaries of where it's supposed to be. 10:36 So for example, if you have a korban which goes out, goes outside of the Azara, so it becomes disqualified by virtue of the fact that it left. 10:46 There's a psul of yotze, it went out of the Azara, it becomes disqualified. 10:50 Says the Gemara, that's not true by Ma'aser Sheni and by Bikkurim. 10:55 Even though it's true that Ma'aser Sheni and Bikkurim must be eaten in Yerushalayim, that just means it must be eaten in Yerushalayim, but if it goes out of Yerushalayim, what happens? 11:06 Don't eat it there. 11:07 What should you do? 11:08 Bring it back into Yerushalayim. 11:10 So you see very clearly, because Ma'aser Sheni and Bikkurim, even though it must be eaten in Yerushalayim, and there's a disqualification once it goes out of the boundaries of Yerushalayim and goes someplace else, nevertheless the halacha is all you need to 11:23 do is bring it back in, and that is where Ulla and Rabbi Yochanan wanted to compare our case of a limb of a fetus that goes out of its mother. 11:33 Be-ma'arava matnu hachi. In Ma'arava, in Eretz Yisrael, the way they learned the machlokes between Rav and Shmuel was as follows: רב אמר יש לידה לאיברים. 11:43 Rav says there is a concept of birth when it comes to individual limbs. 11:48 רבי יוחנן אמר אין לידה לאיברים. There's no such thing as giving birth to a limb. 11:53 In other words, this is not as much a science-based machlokes as much as it is a halachic machlokes. 12:04 In other words, when a limb of a fetus comes out of its mother, how do you define that halachically? 12:12 Is it called that that limb was born or that limb came out? 12:17 That's the way the Gemara's going to explain it. 12:19 Now according to Rav, Rav says the ben pekuah status, in other words, the halacha that an animal's shechita works for its fetus, only works for an unborn animal. 12:31 When you have a limb that comes out, that limb was born. 12:34 Now you can't become unborn. 12:36 Once a limb is born, it's halachically born and you can't be unborn. 12:41 Now Rabbi Yochanan, who we quoted earlier, is going to disagree and say ein leida le-eivarim. 12:47 Birth is something that happens to an entire fetus. 12:51 If the animal, the fetus, was not born, so you can't give a birth status to just one of the limbs. 12:56 It's all one animal. 12:57 So again, it's much more of a halachic machlokes than it is a science machlokes, but how do you define a limb of a fetus that came out of its mother when the rest of the animal or the rest of the fetus 13:08 stayed inside? Rav says it's considered born and Rabbi Yochanan says it's not considered born. 13:14 And the Gemara says, mai beineiyhu? 13:17 Now this mai beineiyhu can't mean what's the difference between Rav and Rabbi Yochanan because the difference is whether the limb is considered born. 13:25 So what mai beineiyhu over here means is what's the difference between the way our Gemara is learning this, the way the Ma'arava's learning it, and the way we learned it previously. 13:33 The Gemara says איכא בינייהו למיסר מיעט איבר שבפנים. 13:37 To go ahead and assur a part of the limb which is still inside. 13:41 In other words, if the entire issue over here is a psul of yotze, disqualification of going out of bounds, so then guess what? 13:49 The part that goes out of bounds is going to be prohibited, the part that stayed in is going to be permissible. 13:56 So if you have one limb and three-quarters of that limb went out, but one-quarter stayed in, if the disqualification is going out of its boundary, so only the part of the limb that went out of its boundary is going to 14:08 be disqualified, but the part that stays inside will still be covered under the mother's shechita. 14:13 But if the point over here is that there's a concept of leida le-eivarim, which means one particular limb can be born on its own, so once the limb is born, the entire limb is born. 14:25 In other words, you can't say that there's leida le-chatzi eivar, there's birth to a half-limb. 14:31 That nobody says. If you're going to say that there's a halachic concept of being born on one individual limb, it goes on the entire limb. 14:38 It comes out that if you're going to say that the reason for Rav's opinion is why Rav says that that limb needs a shechita—and the truth is it's not going to have a shechita because it needs a shechita—that would go 14:53 on the entire limb and not just— Ebaiye Lahu. Gemara now has an interesting question. 14:56 The Divrei Ha'omer ein leida le'eivarim according to the opinion that says that there's no such thing, there's no concept of birth for one individual limb, what would happen הוציא עובר את ידו והחזירה? 15:12 If the fetus stuck its hand out vehachzira and then brought it back in, וחזר והוציא את ידו והחזירה and stuck out another hand and brought it back in, Ad shehushlemu lerubo and until most of it came out. 15:27 So obviously there's a very difficult birth going on over here. 15:30 One paw came out, another paw came out, and then a hind leg came out, another hind leg came out, until most of the animal managed to come out, but ultimately went back in. 15:41 So now what's the Halacha? Mahu? Mi Amrinan? Nafak lei rubo? 15:44 Do we say listen, at some point most of this animal came out? 15:50 O Dilma or do we say kivan dehadar hadar? 15:53 Since it went back in, it went back in. 15:56 In other words, there's no concept of being born in parts. 15:57 Either the animal's born or it's not born. 16:00 So what happens if a bunch of parts come out but all of them go back in and none of them are out at the same time? 16:06 Do you consider this to be an animal that's born or no? 16:09 ein leida le'eivarim, only once the animal has its official birth does it get stamped with the Halachic status of being born. 16:20 Im timtzei lomar says the Gemara, what if you're going to say kivan dehadar hadar that since it went back in, it went back in, it's not considered born? 16:28 Now the Gemara wants to know הוציא עובר את ידו וחתכה. 16:32 What if the farmer over here determined we're not going to be able to save this animal? 16:38 This birth is just too complicated, it's not working out. 16:41 So what happens? The ubar sticks out one hand and what happens? 16:45 He cuts it off. 16:46 He amputates that arm. 16:47 וחזר והוציא את ידו וחתכה and the fetus sticks out another hand vechatcha and he amputates that arm as well, Ad shehushlemu lerubo until he amputates most of the animal. 16:59 Mahu? Mi Amrinan? hanafak lei rubo? The bottom line is, most of this animal came out. 17:05 You're right that it's hard to call it born because it's just a bunch of limbs that he amputated. 17:10 או דילמא רובו בבת אחת בעינן? Or maybe you need to have most of the animal being born at once? 17:17 That's important to note that Rashi says, the last Rashi, אפילו למאן דאמר יש לידה איכא למבעי. 17:22 The Gemara started off by saying the question was according to the opinion that says that there's no concept of birth for individual limbs. 17:29 Says Rashi, the second question of limbs coming out and then cutting them off is a question according to both opinions. 17:36 How do we view that? 17:37 Do we consider this animal to be born or not? 17:40 Gemara says ta shema let's try to bring a raya. 17:43 Top of Samech-Tet Amud Aleph, Ze Haklal. Here's the rule. 17:48 We learned this in our Mishna. Davar shebegufa, if you have a part of the actual mother that was cut off and it remained inside the animal, asur. 17:57 That's not going to be covered by the shechita. 17:58 For example, the Mishna gave an example of cutting out the spleen. 18:02 So a person does some type of internal procedure on the animal and takes out the spleen, the spleen is not going to be covered by its shechita because davar shebegufa asur. 18:12 Something which is part of the mother's body is not covered by shechita if it's severed. 18:19 Veshe'eino gufa, if it's not part of the actual mother, mutar, it will be mutar if it's cut into a bunch of pieces. 18:27 Now the Gemara says she'ein gufa le'atuyei mai? 18:29 Remember, our Mishna told us very clearly that if you cut off the spleen or the kidneys of the mother and it stays inside the animal the mother during shechita, the spleen and the kidneys are not going to be permissible to 18:41 be eaten. You're not allowed to eat them. 18:43 Then the Mishna goes ahead and says ze haklal here's the rule. 18:47 Whenever a Mishna says ze haklal here's the rule, it can't just be repeating the same Halacha a second time because we know that already. 18:55 Ze haklal has to include something that wasn't listed in the Mishna. 18:58 So the Gemara wants to know, when it says ze haklal here's the rule she'eino gufa and it says something which is not part of the mother, it's going to be asur le'atuyei mai? 19:09 What's that including? מאי לאו לאתויי כהאי גוונא? 19:12 Let's assume it's including a case where you cut up the ubar as it was coming out. 19:18 Gemara says lo, that's not the case. 19:20 לאתויי קלוט ממעי פרה. This refers to a fetus that does not have split hooves inside a para. 19:28 So you have a cow that's giving birth and the fetus does not have split hooves for some reason, the Halacha is it's still going to be permissible with the mother's shechita. Aliba deRabbi Shimon. 19:36 This follows the opinion of Rabbi Shimon. 19:38 דאף על גב דאמר רבי שמעון, even though Rabbi Shimon told us kalut ben para, if you have a fetus born from a cow and it does not have split hooves, the Halacha is asur. 19:49 You're not allowed to eat that animal because again the pasuk tells us it has to have mafriset parsa, it has to have split hooves. 19:55 But if an animal's born without split hooves, it's going to be assur. Hani milei, that's only true היכא דיצא לאוויר העולם, that's only if it was born and exited into the air of the world. 20:06 Aval be'mei imo, if it still remained in the mother's stomach and it was there at the time of shechita, shari, it will be permissible. 20:14 It happens to be this is not really today's topic, it's a fascinating Machlokes Rishonim when it comes to the signs of kosher animals, whether it's a siman or a siba. 20:25 In other words, is it just an indication, the fact that it has split hooves and chews its cud, is that a siman, an indication that it's a kosher animal, or is that the reason why it's a kosher animal? 20:37 According to Reb Shimon, it seems like it's the reason why it's a kosher animal. 20:39 This becomes very much relevant when it comes to genetically modified organisms which I'm not so sure they're still working on it but for a while they were trying to create lab-grown beef and they were using stem cells from non-kosher animals 20:57 and this whole topic becomes very relevant. 20:59 Again, not today's topic, but again, this is one of the sources for if you have a kalth ben para, if you have a cow who gives birth to another what should be a calf but doesn't have split hooves, how do you view 21:10 that calf? But again, not today's discussion. 21:12 Ba'ei Rav Chananya. Rav Chananya has the following question: הוציא עובר את ידו בעזרה. 21:18 What happens if you have a cow in the Azara, a pregnant cow in the Azara, and it sticks out its hand inside the Azara? 21:28 In other words, the point over here is why do we care about it being in the Azara? 21:31 Because again we said that the disqualification according to Rav is that it went out of bounds. 21:38 But what if you have a new boundary that you created? 21:41 The Azara. In other words, it's inside the Beis HaMikdash. 21:44 Gemara says, mahu? מגו דהוי מחיצה לגבי קדשים הוי נמי לגבי דהאי. 21:49 Maybe by virtue of the fact that when you have a korban, it has its own new boundary called the Azara, maybe its boundary is extended to its personalized boundary. 22:02 In other words, a typical animal in someone's backyard, what's its boundary? 22:06 The only definable boundary is its mother. 22:09 What happens if you have a korban which is in the Beis HaMikdash? 22:13 Everyone knows that there is a boundary for this korban which is the Beis HaMikdash. 22:17 So maybe when it comes to this animal, it gets an extended boundary to the Beis HaMikdash. 22:23 That's the Gemara's question: מגו דהוי מחיצה לגבי קדשים הוי נמי לגבי דהאי, אודלמא לגבי דהאי לאו מחיצה היא? 22:32 In other words, you're right, it has a boundary, but it has nothing to do with this. 22:35 It's a boundary with regard to its korban status, not with regard to its let's just call it gestational status. 22:43 It has nothing to do with this. 22:46 Gemara explains why the מחיצת עובר אמו הוא. 22:50 The boundary of the fetus is its mother. 22:53 Amar lei Abaye: Abaye responds to him: תיבעי לך קדשים קלים בירושלים. 22:58 Why are you only asking me about a korban which is in the Azara? 23:02 Why don't you ask me about kodshim kalim, a korban shelamim, anywhere in Yerushalayim? 23:08 Why don't you ask that question? 23:10 And he responds and says, קדשים קלים בירושלים, מאי טעמא לא קמיבעיא לך? 23:13 Why didn't I ask you that question? 23:16 מחיצת עובר אמו הוא. Because when it comes to the mechitza of a fetus, you know what its boundary is? 23:22 It's its mother. הכא נמי מחיצת עובר אמו הוא. 23:25 Here also, the mechitza of an ubar of a fetus is its mother. 23:29 In other words, the Gemara says the fact that you found another relevant boundary to this particular animal has nothing to do with the status of its shechita. 23:38 When it comes to the status of shechita, the boundary of a fetus always is going to be its mother. 23:45 The fact that this particular korban has the Azara as its boundary, Yerushalayim as its boundary, has absolutely nothing to do with this. 23:52 And therefore, once the animal leaves the mechitza, it leaves the boundaries of its mother, it's born, it ultimately loses its status as a ben paku'a. Ba'i Ilfa. 24:03 Gemara goes on: הוציא עובר את ידו בין סימן לסימן. 24:06 What happens if a person was shechting a korban, he shechts, we mentioned, we learned previously, you have to cut the kaneh and the veshet, you have to cut the windpipe and the foodpipe. 24:16 So now what happens if he cuts one of those simanim but doesn't cut the other one yet, and in between cutting those simanim, the fetus stuck out its hand? 24:28 Mahu? What's the halacha? 24:29 מי מצטרף סימן ראשון לסימן שני לטהרה מידי נבלה או לא? Can you combine both simanim to ultimately remove the status of neveila from it? 24:39 So just quickly to remind us what this is talking about. 24:41 When an animal has shechita, there are two things that are accomplished: number one, it accomplishes that it permits it to be eaten; number two, even if for some reason it can't be eaten, maybe it's determined to be a treifa, the 24:54 shechita accomplishes A shechita accomplishes that it's no longer a neveilah. Neveilah carries tumah with it, and therefore the shechita ultimately accomplishes that it will become a non-neveilah. 25:05 So now in this case the Gemorrah's question is as follows: Everybody agrees that because there was a change in status of this limb, it's not going to be permissible for shechita, for eating. 25:21 Again, so again, you have the animal which, a pregnant cow which you are shechting. 25:27 And what happened? You shecht one siman and the entire fetus is inside, it's in utero still. 25:33 So you cut one siman. 25:35 That one siman, its job was to cast heter, permissibility, for eating and for tumah on everything included in this cow. 25:45 Now before you shecht the second siman, the ubar stuck its hand out. 25:51 So it comes out when you shecht the second siman, the remaining one of those simanim, the only thing it can do for this limb is stop it from being a neveilah. 26:02 The question is, can you combine those two different shechitas, a shechita for eating and neveilah, and a shechita for only neveilah to permit that limb to be eaten? 26:13 What's the halacha over there? 26:15 Amar Rava, Rava responds kal vachomer, he makes a kal vachomer. 26:18 אם הועילו סימן ראשון לסימן שני להתירה באכילה לא יועילו לה לטהרה מידי נבילה. If you could combine siman one and two to permit both the mother and the fetus to be eaten, you shouldn't be able to combine it to be able to permit it from tumah? 26:36 The answer is yes, it definitely works. 26:39 Okay, the Gemorrah's another question. 26:40 Ba'i Rav Yirmeyah, Mahu lachshosh lizaro. Do we have to worry about the offspring of a ben pakua? 26:49 So again, he didn't give us many details in his question, he just wanted to know what is the halacha of the offspring of a ben pakua. Ben pakua again meaning this animal which was born alive after receiving a shechita in utero. 27:06 So again, you have a pregnant cow, shecht the pregnant cow, after the shechita the cow gives birth and there's an animal walking around, a good happy healthy calf, grows up to be its nice big own adult either par or parah 27:22 because we'll see it depends if it's male or female in just in a few minutes. 27:26 So what's the halacha with that animal that's now walking around? 27:30 The halacha is it does not have to have a shechita. 27:32 Do we have to worry about its offspring? 27:34 So the Gemorrah says heichi dami, what's the case, what's he asking you about? 27:39 אילימא דאזל אבהמה מעליותא. If you're talking about that this animal was a male animal, ultimately had relations with a female animal, so you're worried about the halacha of what comes from there. 27:55 מאי איריא האי דאית ביה איסור יוצא אפילו בן פקוע דעלמא. Why specifically this one that has this status of issur yotzei, even a general ben pakua would have this halacha. 28:05 In other words, the Gemorrah starts off understanding that his question is specifically talking about a ben pakua whose arm went out during shechita. 28:11 So now you have this ben pakua where the front right paw has a marking on it that says not muttar as ben pakua. 28:20 Now that ben pakua went ahead and had relations with a regular female animal. 28:27 Says the Gemorrah, why are you asking about that particular case? 28:30 In other words, אפילו בן פקוע דעלמא נמי. 28:33 Any ben pakua will have this problem. 28:34 Amar Rav Ashi, Rav Ashi tells us לדברי האומר חוששין לזרע האב. 28:37 According to the one who says we are worried about the offspring of the father, in other words, essentially what this means is that when it comes to animals we follow the father's yichus, we follow the father's halachic status. 28:48 בן פקוע הבא על בהמה מעליא הולד אין לו תקנה. He tells us the halacha is when a ben pakua has relations with a regular animal, the vlad, the child that will be born from that ein lo takanah, has no solution. 29:03 Just quickly to explain this, Rashi explains what the problem with this is. 29:08 If you have a ben pakua that has relations with a non-ben pakua, the baby that's born is a cross-breed and has no solution. 29:16 Why? Because its father doesn't need shechita. 29:19 Its mother needs shechita. 29:21 And what Rashi says what happens is essentially what that means is it's halfway shechted. 29:26 An animal that's halfway shechted can't be solved with shechita. 29:29 Its simanim are not susceptible to shechita. 29:32 Rashi says either because it's considered halfway shechted or one siman shechted the other one's not shechted. 29:37 The bottom line is its simanim are no longer going to be solved with a shechita. 29:43 So in other words, why are you asking specifically about a ben pakua who stuck its hand out before the shechita? Lo tzericha, says the Gemorrah, we're talking about a case דאזל אבן פקועה דכוותיה. 29:55 It was a male ben pekuah that had a relationship with the female ben pekuah. 29:59 So mai, what's the question? 30:00 איבר מוליד איבר וחתכיה ושריה או דלמא מבלבל זרעיה? Maybe it gets mixed. 30:06 Gemara seems to have a little bit of a primitive understanding of what goes on over here and the Gemara's going to dismiss it very soon because of that, which says what happens when a male has relations with the female. 30:16 Is it that all the organs of the male give power for the fetus to have that organ? 30:23 In other words, if the father's going to have a front right paw, the baby will have a front right paw. 30:30 If the father has a hind leg, the baby will have a hind leg. 30:34 Now, what happens if the father has a front right paw whose halakhic status is it can't be eaten, maybe the front right paw of the baby will also have halakhic status it can't be eaten? 30:43 Or maybe what happens is the entire status of the father mixed together in his zar'a and that gives birth to the baby. 30:52 Gemara says hadar amar eventually you say pishita it's obviously the mevalbel zar'ei. 30:55 It comes from the entire status to the animal. 30:58 Why? Im kein, because if your understanding was true that a foot gives birth to a foot, suma yolad suma. 31:04 If you have a blind cow or blind ox, what's going to happen is it'll give birth to a blind to a blind baby. 31:14 Kite'ah, if you have a crippled cow, yolad kite'ah, its baby will also be born that way. 31:17 But of course we know that's not true. 31:18 Ela pishita obviously mevalbel zar'ei, the halakhic status of the father gets mixed up in the entire animal and it has the ability to ruin the entire baby. 31:26 באיי מכח דהאי קא באיי לה. This was the question. 31:28 ואימא בעלמא לאו מכח חלב ודם קאתייא, any animal in the world, its power, its zar'a comes from the entire being of the cow. 31:39 Now included in that is cheilev which is not which is not permissible to be eaten, and dam, blood, which is not permissible to be eaten. 31:47 Nevertheless, v'sharya, the baby who gets its status from that cow is still permissible to be eaten. 31:55 הכא נמי לא שנא so over here the halakhah should be the same. 32:04 או דלמא תרי איסורי אמרינן תלתא לא אמרינן we only say this with regard to two issurim of cheilev the forbidden fats forbidden fats and dam, but not by three of them, not when it has cheilev, dam, and a leg which went out of yotze. Gemara says le'man, who is 32:21 this going to follow? 32:22 Ilei Rebbe Meir, if we're going to follow pishita v'Rebbe Meir we'll explain who that is in just a minute, he says איסור חלב ודם איכא he's of the opinion that there's no such thing as a ben pekuah, the shechitah of the mother won't help for the baby. 32:33 So what's going to happen, you'll have only a total of cheilev and dam in the father, but there's no such thing as a disqualification of yotze because there's no there is no part of the animal which is permissible because he 32:45 says issur yotze leka. Ilei Rebbe Yehuda if this follows the opinion of Rebbe Yehuda, he says there is a ben pekuah status, איסור יוצא איכא איסור חלב ודם ליכא, he says there's no problem of cheilev and dam and he explains, it says in a Mishnah: Gid hanasheh, it comes to the sciatic nerve we'll learn 32:59 about about this later in this masechet, noheig b'shlil is relevant when it comes to a fetus, v'chalbo asur and its cheilev is going to be prohibited. 33:09 Divrei Rebbe Meir. Rebbe Yehuda omer, Rebbe Yehuda says no, when it comes to the sciatic nerve, ein noheig b'shlil it's not relevant in a fetus, v'chalbo mutar and the cheilev of the fetus is going to be mutar. 33:20 So the bottom line is there is no person in the world who will say that this animal has three things: number one yotze, number two cheilev, number three dam, because either you hold there's no psul of yotze, or you hold 33:34 there is a psul of yotze but you take out cheilev and dam. 33:36 So there's no such thing as a question when it has three issurim. 33:38 אלא כל מכח לא אמרינן דשריא we never say this idea that it takes from the power of the father and transfers to the fetus and it's going to be mutar. 33:49 והכי קמיבעיא ליה, this was the question, an entirely different understanding of the question from the beginning. 33:52 Ma'u li'gmorei chalavo? What's the halakhah of drinking the milk of a ben pekuah? 34:00 In other words, a female ben pekuah. Chalav d'alma, when it comes to any other chalav in the world, לאו כאיבר מן החי דמי? 34:06 Why isn't milk that comes from a cow eiver min hachai, the halakhah is you're not allowed to eat an eiver, a limb from live animal, so why are you allowed to drink milk from a cow? 34:15 Halakhah is because the Torah says you're allowed, v'sharya, it's mutar. Hai nami, maybe in this case as well lo shna it should be permissible. 34:22 או דלמא התם איתקן ליה איסוריה בשחיטה, when it comes to regular milk, you could shecht it, in this case you can't הכא לא איתקן ליה איסוריה בשחיטה, there is no there is no way to shecht it because there's no shechitah that's necessary. 34:36 Teiku, the halakhah is we leave this question standing. 34:39 We have a lot to do in a very short amount of time. 34:41 Choteich mi'ubar, if you cut parts of an ubar and leave it inside the mother and shecht it, halakhah is it's going to be okay, it's going to be okay, but the spleen and the kidneys not. 34:50 Minalan, where do we know this from? 34:51 The Sifra, it says in the pasuk: וכל בהמה מפרסת פרסה בבהמה. 34:55 The whole pasuk says... 34:56 It says וכל בהמה מפרסת פרסה ושסעת שסע שתי פרסות מעלת גרה בבהמה. So it says ve-chol behemah, delete the middle of the pasuk, and then the last word of the pasuk is ba-behemah. 35:05 So it seems like it says a behemah inside a behemah is going to be permissible. 35:11 Le-rabot, it comes to include a v'lad, to include a baby that's born. 35:14 Ella me-atah, since we see the halakha that anything which is inside the mother is going to be behemah ba-behemah will be permissible. 35:20 Ella me-atah, if that's the case, yemiru bo, we should be able to do temurah as well. 35:24 Almah, why does it say in the Mishna אין ממירין לא באיברין בעוברין, you can't do temurah, remember this was transferring of kedusha from one animal to the next. 35:37 Lo evarin be-ubarin, not one limb on a fetus, lo ubarin bi-evarin, not a fetus on limbs, ולא איברין ועוברין בשלמים, you can't do limbs and fetuses on a whole animal, ולא שלמים בהם, and not a whole animal on them. 35:52 Can't do temurah in those cases. 35:54 Ella why not? Because the pasuk says behemah over there, it has to be called once you're calling it a behemah you should be able to do temurah on it. 36:01 Ella amar k'ra, the pasuk says ve-chol behemah. 36:03 The reason why it says it's going to be permissible is because of the pasuk says ve-chol behemah. 36:07 The kol is an inclusive word. 36:09 לרבות את הולד, it comes to include the baby. 36:11 Ei hachi, if that's the case, חתך מן הטחול, even if you're going to cut off from the spleen and from the klyot, from the kidneys, it should be okay as well. 36:20 Almah t'nan, why does it say in the Mishna חתך מן העובר שבמעיה מותר באכילה מן הטחול ומן הכליות אסור? 36:26 In other words, as long as it says ve-chol, anything inside the animal should be included, even if it's the kidneys and the spleen. 36:31 מן הכליות אסור באכילה. Why does it say that? 36:33 Amar k'ra, the pasuk says otah. 36:37 It says otah, shleimah ve-lo chaseirah, it has to be complete and not cut up. 36:39 So if the animal's cut up, it's not going to be permissible. 36:41 Ella me-atah, if that's the case, שחטה בהמה ומצא בה דמות יונה? 36:44 What happens if a person shechts a behemah and finds a fetus inside of it which looks like a bird, in other words, doesn't have legs, it should be mutar. Almah, why did Rabbi Yochanan say שחטה בהמה ומצא בה דמות יונה אסורה באכילה? 36:58 If he shechts an animal and finds inside of it an image which looks like a bird, it's going to be assur to eat. 37:07 The Gemara says be'inan parsah, we have to have hooves, and it doesn't have hooves. 37:12 Ve-leika. Ella me-atah, if that's the case, כל מפרסה לצד? 37:17 We learned in the beginning of today's shiur that if you have an animal which is a fetus inside a mother and it has split, it does not have split hooves, it's going to be permissible, it should be assur if you 37:27 tell me it has to have parsah. 37:29 It should be assur. 37:30 The Gemara says תנא דבי רבי ישמעאל ברבי שמעון בן יוחאי, we learn in the Beis Medrash of Rabbi Yishmael in the name of Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai: parsah ba-behemah tocheilu. 37:39 Read the pasuk because it says mafreset parsah. 37:44 So whether it's one hoof or two hooves, that's sufficient, but it has to have at least one hoof, and this animal which looks like a yonah, which looks like a bird, doesn't have either. 37:54 Shimon bar Ashi amar, Rabbi Shimon bar Ashi says, le-olam ki-de-amrinan, really the way that we know that this animal is going to be permissible is because it says behemah ba-behemah, so it indicates that as long as it is a behemah inside a behemah, it's going to be permissible. 38:08 Now, what was your question? 38:09 U-dekashlach, ein memirin, your question is from the Mishna that says you can't do temurah? 38:14 המני רבי שמעון היא. This is Rabbi Shimon, דמקיש תמורה למעשר. 38:17 He goes ahead and he compares temurah to ma'aser. 38:21 And he says the following: מה מעשר אינו נוהג באיברין ובעוברין, when it comes to ma'aser, the halakha is it has to go under the shevet, it has to go under the stick, כל אשר יעבור תחת השבט. 38:32 Now if an animal can't walk, it can't go under the stick. 38:37 Therefore he says מה מעשר אינו נוהג בעוברין ובאיברין, ma'aser is not relevant to a fetus or to a limb because it can't walk. 38:45 אף תמורה אינה נוהגת בעוברין ובאיברין. It doesn't work by ubar and evar. 38:51 In other words, it's a separate halakha of temurah because we compared it to ma'aser sheni, and that's why there's not going to be temurah by an ubar, but not because the pasuk excludes it. 39:02 Now the Gemara says how do we know that this is Rabbi Shimon's opinion? 39:05 Minah teimra? How do we know Rabbi Shimon holds this? 39:08 Now the Gemara says the following: de-tanya, for it says in a Mishna, amar Rabbi Yose, Rabbi Yose said the following. 39:12 Now pay attention, Rabbi Yose's language, it sounds like he's talking to somebody expecting a response. 39:18 Amar Rabbi Yose, ve-halo ba-mukdashin, isn't it true when it comes to things which are sanctified, ha-omer, רגלה של זו כולה עולה, רגלה של זו עולה, a person points to an animal and says the foot of this animal should be an olah, what's the halakha? Kullah olah, the entire thing becomes an olah. 39:37 אף כשייאמר רגל של זו תחת זו, the same thing is true if you say the animal of this animal should be switched for that animal for another korban. 39:44 תהא כולה תמורה תחתיה, the whole thing should be temurah. 39:46 In other words, an indication that temurah should work on one limb. 39:50 תהא כולה תמורה תחתיה. Now the Gemara wants to know who was he talking about? 39:55 Who was he talking about, who was he talking to, sorry. 39:57 למאן קמהדר ליה? Who is he talking to and expecting a response from? 40:01 אילימא דרבי מאיר ודרבי יהודה. If he's just talking to the stam Mishnah, Rabbi Meir and Rabbi Yehuda, מי אית להו האי סברא? 40:08 Do they actually hold of this concept of רגל של זו תהא כולה עולה? 40:11 If you point to a leg of an animal and designate it as a korban ola, that it remains an ola. 40:17 That's not true, v'tanya, we learned in a Baraisa, yachol, I would think, אמר רגל של זו עולה, a person says that the leg of this animal should be an ola, I would think tehei kula ola, the entire animal becomes an ola, talmud lomar the pasuk says no: כל אשר יתן ממנו לה' יהיה קדש. 40:34 Anything that I'll give from it to Hashem will be kodesh. 40:37 What do we learn from there? 40:39 Mimenu kodesh, only from it what you actually sanctified becomes kadosh, v'lo kula kadosh. 40:44 So what do you do? 40:45 If you have an animal where you designated its leg as an ola, so only the leg becomes an ola and not the rest of the animal. 40:52 Yachol, I would think, tetzei l'chullin, the entire thing will just become a regular mundane animal, talmud lomar yihye, it stays be-havyato te-hei, it stays an ola. 41:03 So what do you do here? 41:03 You have an animal whose leg is an ola, the rest of it is not an ola. Keitzad, what do you do? 41:08 Timacher l'tzarchei olos, you sell it for an ola, v'dameha l'chullin. 41:12 Its money goes to this person's bank account, and the rest of the animal can be used as an ola, chutz mi-dmei eivar, that is actually money which is used for olos. 41:21 דברי רבי מאיר ורבי יהודה, so you see clearly Rabbi Meir and Rabbi Yehuda are of the opinion that if you designate the leg of an animal as an ola, only the leg remains an ola. 41:30 So again, Rabbi Yose, who were you talking to when you said, \"Don't you agree to me that just like when you designate a leg as an ola, the entire animal becomes an ola, so the same thing should be true with 41:42 regard to tmura?\" Rabbi Meir and Rabbi Yehuda are just going to stop right there and say, \"No, we don't agree with you. 41:46 If you designated a leg as an ola, only the leg is an ola.\" So the Gemara says: דברי רבי מאיר ורבי יהודה, רבי יוסי ורבי שמעון אומרים, Rabbi Yose and Rabbi Shimon disagree and they say מנין לאומר רגל של זו תהא כולה עולה, talmud lomar yihye, the pasuk says yihye, l'rabos es kulla, to include the whole thing. 42:06 So l'man? Who is he talking to? 42:06 אילימא רבי מאיר ורבי יהודה, מי אית להו האי סברא? They don't agree with him, so the conversation doesn't flow. 42:11 Ela lav, it must be to Rabbi Shimon, it must've been talking to Rabbi Shimon, and what do you see here? 42:16 Rabbi Shimon is of the opinion that you compare the ola to ma'aser sheini and sorry, to ma'aser sheini, and when it comes to limbs and fetuses, you will have individual tmura that's relevant over there. 42:40 In other words, the Gemara is trying to accomplish: you could still have that drasha of beheima b'vheima, and still say there's no tmura when it comes to limbs, but Rabbi Shimon's opinion will be that there is tmura there because Rabbi Shimon's 42:53 the outlier opinion over there. 42:54 Gemara says: No, that's not going to work. 42:56 רבי יוסי טעמא דנפשיה קאמר, Rabbi Yose was just saying his own reason, you can't really tack that on to Rabbi Shimon. 43:01 We'll stop here at the Mishnah. 43:04 Have a wonderful day.
Expand transcript 7,911 words
